Great post, Kadrian! Thanks for mentioning my growing Substack in your recommendations. It has been wonderful to read your work and connect. In regards to navigating our relationship as listeners to artists who are problematic. It is always a worth while conversation to have and there isn't a simple answer. Opinions will differ from listener to listener and I do think it is easier to cut out particular artists based on what their actions or statements were and what type of relationship is had with their music. What I do find interesting are the artists you mentioned you no longer engage with because of purposeful malice ( R. Kelly, Chris Brown, Michael Jackson, and Kanye West) versus who you’re struggling with (David Bowie, John Lennon, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Weezer). Though I agree that everyone in the first group have larger “stains” as Dederer puts it, I would also point out the level of scrutiny Black artists are consistently met with and how public any negative action is. Whereas someone like John Lennon can create a “stain” that is only spoken about in hushed tones until his death and very rarely brought up in the telling of his story. You can’t address the first group of names with out their stains coming up, they are forever synonymous with those actions, where the second group are still musicians first. I’m interested in how our unconscious bias may play into our ability to cut the cord. Someone I’m constantly thinking about is Willie Colon, he’s so integral to salsa, but has said such awful things. Would love to know if you have any thoughts on this.
Hi Emily! Thanks for your kind words and incredibly thoughtful response. To be honest, I had not even considered that, and I thank you for highlighting this to me, especially about my list of artists, too. There is a part of me that felt it easier to cut the cord on the first row of artists simply because I was not as attached to their music when I was a child as opposed to the other ones, who I had such deep reverance and connection too. There is definitely unconscious bias happening because I did not even realize it, and now this is something that I must pay attention to more and investigate further. As you mentioned, i couldn't agree more - there is no simple answer. the first row of people was to highlight the ones who physical and racial harm and were found "guilty by law" in some way or another, and with a ruling like that, the separation is easier to grapple with and make a decision as opposed to terrible things people have said. but my thinking is beginning to change on that too, especially now with your reveal about what Willie Colon has said. i just looked it up, and dammit, it breaks my hurt and angers me at the same time. another artist that I must investigate now too. sorry for the rambling, i will get back to you with more concise thoughts, but i wanted to share my initial reaction.
Not surprised by Paul Stanley's problematic and transphobic comment as the lyrics to many songs by Kiss were also deeply misogynistic. That said, A LOT of music is, and Kiss are by no means alone when it comes to toxic masculinity, sexism and misogyny. The bigger question you raise of separating the art from the artist is a fantastic conversation that everybody needs to have with themselves. Especially as we all consume so much and with that consumption comes the real possibility of directly and indirectly supporting and enabling reprehensible behaviors. Same with sport and film stars. Can one separate the team from the player, or the film from the actor? The Cleveland Browns showering Deshaun Watson with millions of dollars to be the face of their franchise, Kobe Bryant and his now legendary status, Johnny Depp and Kevin Spacey all come to mind. In the end, everybody has to make up their own mind and decide where they morally stand. It's good food for thought and well done on your essay. Oh, and Claire Dederer's book is a fantastic read!
Great point about Watson. I agree 100% that these are discussions each person needs to have with themselves, and I think using athletes as an example is a great way to get people my age (I'm 48) to start thinking about it. It can be relatable in a way that maybe musicians, comedians, or other artists aren't.
thanks so much for your kind words and thoughtful response, michael! one of the biggest areas i question myself on is if supporting an artist through financial means such as buying their music or going to a show, or frankly any way that allows them to profit directly is perhaps the best way to "stop supporting them." And same with actors and sport stars as you mentioned. i no longer can partake in a johnny depp or kevin spacey film, but i do still enjoy a tom cruise film (even though there are the rumors about scientology). with the human experience being so subjective, there's no catch-all answer, and maybe the answer lies in assessing each one on a case by case basis. definitely need to check out Dederer's book more to continue the investigation!
Thanks so much, Kadrian, for including me and FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE in your list of '23's Best Of! An honor to be in the midst of such creative content creators (you among them)! I look forward to our '24 Tune Tag tangle!
Hot take on KISS and Stanley...I look forward to a more in-depth read after just perusing at the moment. How does all this affect your view of Paul's new Soul Station project (whom I feature in my newest "Inside Tracks" on The Spinners' "Could It Be I'm Falling in Love")? Paul and group cover that song, which I include in the article.
thanks for the kind words and comment, Brad! to be honest, my line of thinking definitely continues on to any act that Paul is associated with since the words came from his personal Instagram, and by extension, that project is represented within it. thankfully, your article gave some great alternative covers to enjoy, too. looking forward to our 2024 tune tag rematch!
Excellent article and a conversation my husband and I have on a regular basis. “Old school” artists sometimes have a hard time shaking their 1970’s misogynistic, racist Archie Bunker upbringings. Things that were acceptable and said and done 50 years ago, I can understand. I’ve seen Boomers/Xers learn, grow, and see the light. 💡 Apologies and honesty earn back my fandom. If the artist is dead, I like to believe that they would have eventually embraced the diversity as another way to say 🖕🏻to The Man. After all, that’s the spirit of rock and roll, right? We may not understand everyone all the time, but we’re all equal sisters and brothers in the Church of Rock and Roll. 🤘🏻
beautifully said, thea! thank you for the kind words. i definitely do believe in second chances, but i feel that the second chances from a public being should also be earned publicly. a genuine apology, remorse, and exploration to learn, evolve, and change is necessary for an artist to come back. i don't believe in permanent cancellation because i believe forgiveness is a key, but people have to earn that.
Summer of '79 (I was 6yrs old!) my 1st Kiss 8trk from my very "1st concert experience p.e.r.i.o.d." didn't follow them aft elementary years... & Am glad to leave it All behind with ya bruh'tha... Too say, "The Least!".
Great post, Kadrian! Thanks for mentioning my growing Substack in your recommendations. It has been wonderful to read your work and connect. In regards to navigating our relationship as listeners to artists who are problematic. It is always a worth while conversation to have and there isn't a simple answer. Opinions will differ from listener to listener and I do think it is easier to cut out particular artists based on what their actions or statements were and what type of relationship is had with their music. What I do find interesting are the artists you mentioned you no longer engage with because of purposeful malice ( R. Kelly, Chris Brown, Michael Jackson, and Kanye West) versus who you’re struggling with (David Bowie, John Lennon, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Weezer). Though I agree that everyone in the first group have larger “stains” as Dederer puts it, I would also point out the level of scrutiny Black artists are consistently met with and how public any negative action is. Whereas someone like John Lennon can create a “stain” that is only spoken about in hushed tones until his death and very rarely brought up in the telling of his story. You can’t address the first group of names with out their stains coming up, they are forever synonymous with those actions, where the second group are still musicians first. I’m interested in how our unconscious bias may play into our ability to cut the cord. Someone I’m constantly thinking about is Willie Colon, he’s so integral to salsa, but has said such awful things. Would love to know if you have any thoughts on this.
Hi Emily! Thanks for your kind words and incredibly thoughtful response. To be honest, I had not even considered that, and I thank you for highlighting this to me, especially about my list of artists, too. There is a part of me that felt it easier to cut the cord on the first row of artists simply because I was not as attached to their music when I was a child as opposed to the other ones, who I had such deep reverance and connection too. There is definitely unconscious bias happening because I did not even realize it, and now this is something that I must pay attention to more and investigate further. As you mentioned, i couldn't agree more - there is no simple answer. the first row of people was to highlight the ones who physical and racial harm and were found "guilty by law" in some way or another, and with a ruling like that, the separation is easier to grapple with and make a decision as opposed to terrible things people have said. but my thinking is beginning to change on that too, especially now with your reveal about what Willie Colon has said. i just looked it up, and dammit, it breaks my hurt and angers me at the same time. another artist that I must investigate now too. sorry for the rambling, i will get back to you with more concise thoughts, but i wanted to share my initial reaction.
Not surprised by Paul Stanley's problematic and transphobic comment as the lyrics to many songs by Kiss were also deeply misogynistic. That said, A LOT of music is, and Kiss are by no means alone when it comes to toxic masculinity, sexism and misogyny. The bigger question you raise of separating the art from the artist is a fantastic conversation that everybody needs to have with themselves. Especially as we all consume so much and with that consumption comes the real possibility of directly and indirectly supporting and enabling reprehensible behaviors. Same with sport and film stars. Can one separate the team from the player, or the film from the actor? The Cleveland Browns showering Deshaun Watson with millions of dollars to be the face of their franchise, Kobe Bryant and his now legendary status, Johnny Depp and Kevin Spacey all come to mind. In the end, everybody has to make up their own mind and decide where they morally stand. It's good food for thought and well done on your essay. Oh, and Claire Dederer's book is a fantastic read!
Great point about Watson. I agree 100% that these are discussions each person needs to have with themselves, and I think using athletes as an example is a great way to get people my age (I'm 48) to start thinking about it. It can be relatable in a way that maybe musicians, comedians, or other artists aren't.
thanks so much for your kind words and thoughtful response, michael! one of the biggest areas i question myself on is if supporting an artist through financial means such as buying their music or going to a show, or frankly any way that allows them to profit directly is perhaps the best way to "stop supporting them." And same with actors and sport stars as you mentioned. i no longer can partake in a johnny depp or kevin spacey film, but i do still enjoy a tom cruise film (even though there are the rumors about scientology). with the human experience being so subjective, there's no catch-all answer, and maybe the answer lies in assessing each one on a case by case basis. definitely need to check out Dederer's book more to continue the investigation!
Thanks so much, Kadrian, for including me and FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE in your list of '23's Best Of! An honor to be in the midst of such creative content creators (you among them)! I look forward to our '24 Tune Tag tangle!
Hot take on KISS and Stanley...I look forward to a more in-depth read after just perusing at the moment. How does all this affect your view of Paul's new Soul Station project (whom I feature in my newest "Inside Tracks" on The Spinners' "Could It Be I'm Falling in Love")? Paul and group cover that song, which I include in the article.
thanks for the kind words and comment, Brad! to be honest, my line of thinking definitely continues on to any act that Paul is associated with since the words came from his personal Instagram, and by extension, that project is represented within it. thankfully, your article gave some great alternative covers to enjoy, too. looking forward to our 2024 tune tag rematch!
Excellent article and a conversation my husband and I have on a regular basis. “Old school” artists sometimes have a hard time shaking their 1970’s misogynistic, racist Archie Bunker upbringings. Things that were acceptable and said and done 50 years ago, I can understand. I’ve seen Boomers/Xers learn, grow, and see the light. 💡 Apologies and honesty earn back my fandom. If the artist is dead, I like to believe that they would have eventually embraced the diversity as another way to say 🖕🏻to The Man. After all, that’s the spirit of rock and roll, right? We may not understand everyone all the time, but we’re all equal sisters and brothers in the Church of Rock and Roll. 🤘🏻
beautifully said, thea! thank you for the kind words. i definitely do believe in second chances, but i feel that the second chances from a public being should also be earned publicly. a genuine apology, remorse, and exploration to learn, evolve, and change is necessary for an artist to come back. i don't believe in permanent cancellation because i believe forgiveness is a key, but people have to earn that.
100%
Stellar ✍🏼 write-up! #NailedItEven
Summer of '79 (I was 6yrs old!) my 1st Kiss 8trk from my very "1st concert experience p.e.r.i.o.d." didn't follow them aft elementary years... & Am glad to leave it All behind with ya bruh'tha... Too say, "The Least!".
Stay Blessed and Beautiful,
ShoeGeezer Mike 🤘🏼🖤
thanks so much for the kind words! that's a pretty awesome first concert though, especially back in 79!
Wonderful read and so well-written my friend ☝🏻💙🙌🏻
Thanks man! Much love